Welcome to Fix Your Gym, a podcast dedicated to bringing you expert knowledge from fitness industry leaders, salespeople, gym owners, tech experts, and other fitness enthusiasts, where you'll learn about the latest industry trends, innovative technologies, new and current products on the market, and health and fitness news from experts across the nation. And now, here's your host, Adam Niffin.

All right. Welcome to the fix your gym podcast. I really appreciate you guys tuning in and supporting the show. We've been growing some and I think our following is increasing and our exposure is increasing. And, um, you know, I think we're, we're starting to learn kind of some of the, um, the problems that people are out there facing and getting to know people, you know, and interview people and see what, what kind of experience they're having. And then, um, hopefully adding value to, to everybody who thought they were alone in the situation and then coming to find out we're all in the shit together and facing a lot of the same problems and, um, and, uh, and everything like that. So real quick before we get into it, um, I want to plug a couple sponsors that really are helping me keep this show going and making this all possible. And I brought on sponsors that I believe are truly valuable to our industry, just as people, as entrepreneurs and the products and services that they're offering. And we're all trying to get creative and create things that are going to help each other. I genuinely believe these people are have other business owners, whoever their customers are, their best interests in mind. And I think that's really important because I think that would kind of taint the show and our purpose to bring on people who don't who aren't genuinely trying to add value. So first, FieldTech Fitness Solutions and the FieldTech app. Ruben Hand is the founder of that company. And basically, It's a software platform. It's a CRM, it's work order scheduling, invoicing, everything you need that's tailored to people in the fitness equipment service and sales industry. His software is unique in the sense that it has built-in programs or whatever the case is for preventative maintenance plans and for installations and is unique to our industry. Yeah, you can view your schedules, manage work orders, all your notes, work performed on each job, on each piece of equipment. I think you can even keep track of PMs and all the serial numbers and everything like that as well. So, reach out to Ruben Hand, connect with him on Facebook, LinkedIn, give him a call. a very good guy, more than willing to help. And I'm sure just even have a conversation with you about how he can help. And then we have a newer sponsor and it's AES Fitness. Adam Schwab is the owner. And I brought this on as a sponsor because I do think that this business model is important. And if I was to go back to day one, of starting this business, and I had my shit together a little bit more than what I did when I was 21 when I started, I would probably jump on this model rather than starting from scratch. So AES Fitness is a fitness equipment maintenance and repair company. They've been in business since 2011, but they're a franchise. And so you can hop in to this franchise, I'm sure at a pretty reasonable price relative to what you're going to spend that money anyways, probably starting up and figuring out all this, probably a lot more actually, to be honest with you. Figuring all this stuff out on your own, which sometimes as entrepreneurs, that's what we like to do. And that's fine. But maybe somebody wants to hop in on a business that already has established relationships, already has established customer book in that specific market, and so forth. So If you have the entrepreneurial spirit, maybe you're still attacking another company and are thinking about maybe you're saving up to get out and start your own thing, which is common. I think a lot of us have done that. So I encourage that type of stuff. It can be hard for the business owner who has to lose a technician, but at the same time, we need innovation. We need people to start new things. And so I encourage my employees that if that's what they genuinely want to do, hey, we can figure out how to even get you there. You know what I mean? And help that. But anyways, the point is, reach out to Adam Schwab and see if he can help you in any way, shape or form. I know he's more than willing, just like Ruben, to have a conversation and even say, hey, this is what I'm doing. This is what we have going on. This is how I can help, whether it's just providing some information or if you're interested in his business and his products or services, that's good too. Neither one of these guys have seemed like I've talked to them both about what they have to offer and they don't seem like they're trying to sell me anything. They're legitimately like, Hey, this is what I'm doing. I'm putting in the work. This is what we're trying to do. You know what I mean? So good, good, solid guys. Um, but anyways, um, to get to the show, uh, we have, uh, uh, Dan Thompson on, uh, for a second time with Huff and Puff fitness repair, because we didn't have enough time last time.

Adam Niffen

Expect the ratings to drop. Yeah. The number of listeners is definitely going to decrease on this. We heard this dude the first time. We don't want to hear him again.

Yeah, no. I think we have a lot to talk about. And I think that you have a... How long have you been in the industry? You've been in the industry for a long time, right? Since 2008. So 16 years. Yeah. So you're a couple years ahead of me. And I had a little hiatus there for a few years too. But, uh, but yeah, so, um, plenty, plenty to talk about and, um, excited to have you on again. I generally try to keep shows like 25 to 30 minutes because I know business owners are, well, they got shit to do. Um, and I, I do as well, but, um, always willing to bring people back and continue the conversation, um, as much as possible. And so, yeah, thanks again for your time, man. I really appreciate it.

Yeah, happy to be here. And have you been keeping track of your number of episodes?

Yeah, I think we're on 19 or 20, maybe.

This is number 20. That's that's an accomplishment. So congratulations. That's, you know, you've I think you are responsible for a lot of the discussions that are happening now, a lot of things that are going on, bringing people together. And I think it's been very beneficial for all of us to have that opportunity to have a place where we can just all bounce ideas off each other, see how somebody is doing things a little bit differently because most of us are running into the same challenges. Very few of us are running into something that's actually unique. I think you've really done a lot to propel that movement going forward. Well done and thank you.

Yeah, no, no problem. And to be honest with you, it's, it's a way for me to connect with people and solve the same problems, you know what I mean? Um, so I'm in no different of a situation than anybody else, um, you know, in our, in our group, uh, you know, and, and, uh, and I'm learning a lot too. Um, and, uh, and everything like that. So no, I appreciate everybody supporting it and, um, being willing to come on and be transparent about, about things. I mean, I think that, you know, some people might be like, Oh, you could be competition or whatever the case is. Or, and I know, I know there's some people that haven't joined because of that idea, you know, and, and, um, you know, I just, I just feel like we gotta, we gotta look past that stuff. And, uh, plus it's, I think we have some cool things in the works where it's going to, we're going to get together and have some fun and, and do some things. And, outside of just always talking shop and just business, but actually build a community of people who, you know, to know each other on a personal level and stuff like that too. Um, you know, so, but yeah, no, 20 episodes, to be honest with you, I wanted to give up after like episode three. Cause I was like, there's no way in hell this is going to work. I'm, I'm, you're a braver man than I am.

I wouldn't have been able to do it.

But I dropped a lot of money into it and I was like, there's no way. I gotta at least, I gotta try. Right. And I'm glad it took a turn to where it is now. It just makes more sense. Cause originally I was having people just, you know, people on from my networking group or other business owners that were outside of the industry talking about health and fitness or talking about, you know, I had a guy on from who owns the MMA gym and I still plan on having people like that on. I think they're cool conversations. Um, but I do like how it's, you know, kind of moved towards, you know, uh, people in the service, the service and sales.

Yeah, yeah, that's that's where the primary focus is. But it's always great to get those other guests and those outside points of view are very enlightening to us as service providers so that then we can better understand what our customers need and what it is they're looking for and how we can make a positive impact on their business.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And really, you know, entrepreneurs in all different industry really even just regular human beings ultimately when you break it down to like what are we trying to do is we're all whether they're problems that we created or problems that are just there or problems that somebody else created but we're all trying to solve some sort of problem. And if we didn't have the problems to solve, we would probably be miserable human beings. You know what I mean? But we bitch and complain about the problems a lot because they're difficult problems. But nevertheless, that's kind of like the purpose of life. Right. You know, definitely. Yeah. Yeah.

It's a series of challenges and some some you overcome, some you don't.

And yeah, just learn as you go. Yeah. Sometimes you get Thumped on the head and beat your head up against a brick wall enough times and lose the battle.

And then you got to retreat a bit, regroup and figure out a way to move forward.

Yeah. So, so, yeah, so that's kind of where. you know, right now my, my, my focus has been is, you know, what, what are all the problems? And I sent out that survey and I want, I wanted to see kind of what are people facing and it's all almost every person that filled out the survey. I think there's like almost 10 now or something like that. Um, there was the same thing that people, um, said in, I think every single submission had a couple of the, of the same things. And, um, and so, which were sales and marketing, hiring and training. Those were the two common things that I think everybody mentioned. There were other things, and those are the two problems other than Not enough money. That's the problem that I would have put. There's just not enough money. I don't have enough money. I need more money. You know what I mean? Yeah.

That would fix a lot of problems.

Yeah. A lack of cash and a lack of customers and a lack of... In our business, we have to have the people in place to do the work. So a lack of employees or struggling with training employees or the time or stuff like that. Other than that, man, what, what's, or you can, you can even expand on any of those or any other problems that you're seeing. But I do want to continue that conversation right now, um, on, on what are the problems because, and I hate to focus too much on the problems. Obviously we want to get to some solutions and we will got to understand the full scope of the, of the problems we're facing first. Right, right.

Yeah. Yeah, I know for us, historically, it's it's been difficult to find technicians and and then train them as well. What we do is is definitely unique. You know, there's there's plenty of. Plenty of automotive training programs out there, plenty of plumbing apprenticeships, same with electrical apprenticeships, so many things out there that are established industries and ours is not. not in that way where there are proper schools, proper training to be able to allow somebody to get into this from the start and then make a career out of it. So a lot of this is being funded by the individual service providers themselves who, as we said, we generally don't have a lot of money. We generally don't have a large capital backing to be able to invest into these things. And so everything's just kind of You just handle it as you go and do the best you can. One of the best things we were able to do. with our training program we do almost primarily on the job training but then we do have some classroom days as well where we have a room full of fitness equipment at our office that we're able to dig into and that's what I want my guys breaking you know that's what I want my trainees breaking it's so much better to be breaking something of mine that belongs to the company as opposed to going out to a customers and breaking something there so We, in a lot of ways, we look at it as a playground where we can go in there, experiment, try things, knowing that if things go south, it's not the end of the world. It's not a big deal. We've got access to all those parts. We're good to go. We can always replace it. And then if we've damaged a part, then the nice thing is, is that the next time another trainee comes along, then that's part of their final test where we sabotage the machine, you know, give it a bunch of issues, and then make them figure it out on their own. So it's, yeah, you know, the training's a huge part of it. Manufacturers do offer training. I know a lot of times that's cost prohibitive for a lot of service providers where you've got to obviously take the technician out of the field for however many days to probably fly to whatever location it is that the training's being held at. And then the training generally has a cost to it as well. And also, a lot of these trainings, they start from square one. All right, at this point, we all know how to tension a walk belt. We all know how to tension a drive belt. But then we're just sitting there beating our heads against the wall, having to listen to somebody explain this that we know how to do that is just not engaging, because we already know how to do it. That That agenda is appropriate for some guys that are brand new, sure. But then it's harder as you get more into it, how much value are you really getting out of that? And then in looking at that, what is the total cost between the dollar amount, the time cost, and then pulling that guy out of the field?

Yeah, for sure. And that's why I like to try to go to those training classes on my own. Or not on my own, but with my techs if I can. Yeah. Because as a business owner, I'm going out there and I'm looking for, what deals can I make with somebody here in this training course that will help pay for it?

Yes. Yeah. Exactly. Right. Yeah.

You've got to find a way to make that investment. ...relationship with somebody at the manufacturer that's going to help. Anyway, so yeah, I'm looking for ways that I can Gain future at least future revenues off of me being at that very expensive training course that we flew all the way to frickin, California for You know or whatever the case is But yeah, no, I'm I'm with you so I have a question Which is my job. I should have questions here. That's purpose But So What do you lose technicians over the most often, I guess. Do you have a high turnover rate? And when people either quit or get fired, is there a common denominator there?

We've changed a lot in the way that we hire over the last few years. And that has really made a huge difference in the quality of new techs that we have coming on board. Our turnover rate is a lot lower. I think that is due to us implementing policies, procedures, standards, etc, for us to better vet people prior to their coming in. Like we said, this is a unique skill set where field work is you're generally out there on your own. And we do have a support system in place remotely where, you know, obviously the manufacturers are available. We have internal tech support available to our guys as well, where we're able to help them through whatever they may run into out in the field. But in a lot of ways, they do feel like an island out there. And it takes a unique person to be able to thrive and work effectively in that environment. So that's really what we've done. Now we're looking for people who are able to be self-starters, be independent, be able to stand on their own two feet, and be able to handle stuff out there on their own, because that's the way that it is most of the time. So we did have issues in the past where we did lose a lot of people who were not they were not geared toward that type of work environment where they weren't able to, that it just, it wasn't a good fit for them. So that was the number one reason why we were losing out on guys before.

I was thinking over the different employees that I've lost over time. And I think a lot of it has to do with the, the level of talent that I'm trying to recruit, uh, where I don't have a ton of money. I can't offer guys a new technician coming in $70,000 a year. You know what I mean? Um, you know, sometimes I used to have to start them off at like 12 to $15 an hour. You know what I mean? So what type of guys are you getting in that situation? That was years ago. Um, but still the same situation now, even at 20, it's still the same. the same people. So what do you do if you need high-level talent, but you're... Hell, you're probably not even taking a check yourself out of your business yet if you're new, or whatever the case is, or very little. So how are we finding good techs? And for me, what I found over time is that... Because I'd have people Because it's just the types of people that I would hire would be... I've had people quit because they... Or get fired because they came into work drunk. You know what I'm saying? Right. Yeah. That can happen. You know what I mean? Or... I had a guy recently who had a psychiatrist appointment that he didn't tell me about on Monday morning. And he, and he called me Sunday night. I'm like, Oh, I'm sorry. You know what I'm saying? Right. Right. So people, and then, you know, I've had people who's, um, had a, this one's been kind of common, um, who were having like girl prop, like family problems at home. Right. Yeah. And, uh, and stuff like that. And so I started kind of thinking like, It seems like there's things that are outside of work in people's lives that keep them from being able to be successful and being able to be developed. Because if I'm going to have to be hiring people at this lower level, I have to develop them. If I want high level talent, but I can't hire it, I have to develop the people there. Right? Right.

So one thing we do to, you know, because we've, we've run into the same issues, you know, our, all of our employees need to be strong communicators. If you can't communicate that you've got a doctor's appointment, you're like, I totally get it. You know, you have a doctor's appointment. Yes. You need to go to that. But as your employer, we need to be knowing about that immediately after it's set so that we can make the necessary adjustments to make sure that everything, you know, uh, goes well. So fortunately all my, all my employees are very, very good about putting in time-off requests for everything. A lot of times, they'll schedule their vacations two or three months out and they will let me know immediately, hey, I've got this going on, it's all right, cool, piece of cake, no problem at all with that early notice. Not that all notice needs to be given with that much time, but it's very beneficial to us to be able to do that and then allows things to run more smoothly. Another thing that we do is we do have regularly scheduled just employee and family events where everybody comes out, it's the employee, their significant other, their kids, whoever it is that they want to bring, so that we can all do things as a group together. Because one thing that we have noticed is, as you know, in this industry, we get a bit slower in the summer, and then in wintertime, we get hammered. And there are days that this job sucks. There are days that our techs are out there for, it's rare, but I'd be lying if I said it never happened, for 12 or 14 hours. And those days are just brutal. And along with that, in order for all of our guys to be successful, they need to have a solid support system at home as well. So we've found that if we're able to support the family as a whole, then we end up, then it works out better for everybody. We end up with an employee that's more engaged and is able to be more engaged because they've got that support at home. Because not only does the employee believe in us in the company and me myself, but the whole family does. So when we've got that employee, that's really hitting the jackpot. When everybody's on the same page, everybody's involved, and so that company culture does go beyond just the people who work here. It goes to their family as well.

Yeah. No, I love it. Real quick, I'm going to... One thing I forgot to mention while I go and I'm going to stop and give a word to our sponsors and a huge thanks for the support and making the show possible. AES Fitness Franchises, Adam Schwab, I forgot to say earlier where they're located because I think that's really important for him and his business. He's up in the tri-state area of New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania. and Virginia Beach as well. So, AES Fitness Franchises is a company that's been in business since 2011. It's a fitness equipment maintenance repair company that's already established. And Adam is trying to scale that business and bring on franchisees. And I think he's got a good thing going up there. So, if you're looking even just for some know, some advice or someone to talk to, definitely set up a call with Adam and, um, and see what, what he's got going on. I mean, obviously our industry is growing. The fitness industry in general is, is growing significantly, you know, and I think that we'll see a lot more of these businesses popping up. So getting involved with one now, I think is a good idea. At least studying it and seeing what people are doing. Because I think once FMT started that whole franchise and it blew up, I think a lot of people were like, Ooh, that's interesting. You know what I'm saying? And actually, FMT, what they did was pretty simple. And it works, you know what I mean? And it's a good franchise, from what I can tell, to be in, especially if you're experienced. Now, I've seen the franchise model fail in situations where the franchisee is from a different industry, you know what I mean? That can be a little bit dangerous. I don't know. Maybe you can make it work. But if you're already experienced in the industry, hopping in with that model, I think that makes more sense. But anyways, get with Adam. And then also, The FieldTech Fitness Solutions is our premier sponsor in the FieldTech app. So if your business installs or services fitness equipment, you definitely need the FieldTech app or you need to set up a call with Ruben and see if it's something that fits your business, which I imagine it does if you're in the fitness equipment service industry. And maybe we'll get into a talk a little bit with Dan too, because I believe Dan's gonna be transitioning over to his software. Yes. Warren talks about it. It's a process, obviously, if you already are coming from another software platform. But yeah, maybe we'll get into that a little bit too here. But yes, also, if you do connect with Ruben at FieldTechFitness.com, you can use the podcast 24 coupon code and get a discount on his services. And yeah, so Back to the conversation, I think that was really good about your experience with hiring and what I found. What I gathered from what you're saying is that over time, you've built some systems and processes for hiring and training. And I'm sure that's taken a lot of time to really get that down to where it where it works. Okay. Are you seeing anything in that area still where, where are your struggles at today now that you've kind of, because obviously we know once we get, once we get one problem solved, more show up, right. Fine tuning, or I don't know that it's ever perfected. But

Right yeah there's always more we can do and we're constantly evolving and constantly improving and identifying issues where we fall short or issues where we could be doing better and doing everything that we can to. uh to rectify those not that we can fix everything you know i'd love to be able to pay everybody a million dollars a week and but obviously that's just not realistic so it's just like everything in business it's a balancing act and finding that middle where things are able to work for everybody and it it just it takes time and it's it is one of those things that really does take a lot of trial and error to figure out how to get this done and how to make it work in a way that works for everyone.

Yeah, absolutely, man. I mean, you know, I know you mentioned is like, that this work can be brutal sometimes. And for us right now, like, those 12 to 15 hour days, those are happening for us more than they're not, you know? Yeah. And, you know, we're So, a little bit probably newer in the process. There's still a lot of inefficiencies in what we do and stuff like that. Plus, we're scaling all at the same time. I'm the type of entrepreneur that's like, I would rather just triple in size before I am prepared to do so. You'll figure it out. And you know, my heart and, uh, and that's, I'm sure people can, um, understand that. Um, but, but yeah, so, um, building those systems and processes and here's the thing, man, too, is that I think a lot of people What we do as human beings, we want instant gratification, we want the answers now. We need the change now, we need to be, we want them. All of these problems need to be solved now, and the truth is, they take decades, some of them.

And that's what we're looking for in our employees as well. Because as we said, there are days that are brutal. There are repairs that just do not go right no matter what. It's not like we walk in, we wave a magic wand, and all of a sudden the thing's fixed, everybody's happy, and out the door we go. Sometimes we're just tearing our hair out trying to figure out what is going on with this machine. We've got conflicting symptoms and we get these weird curveballs every once in a while. It's very important that everybody both in the office and out in the field understands that these do happen and that we need to just look at it, analyze it, determine what it is that we can do, and then move forward. Another thing that I'm always preaching all my guys is we need to fail quickly. If we are going to fail, we can't try and force something to happen that's never going to happen. If we don't have the parts that we need to fix it because we misdiagnosed it or because something else occurred in the meantime, We're wasting our time just spinning our wheels trying to force something that isn't going to happen. Obviously, the perseverance is admirable, but sometimes we can take that to a fault where we're trying too hard for something that's not going to be able to work no matter how hard we try. It's not due to a lack of effort. It's due to something else that at the moment is out of our control. So we need to recognize when we are in those situations and make that determination. All right, this is not going to be able to happen today. We hate having to tell our customers this, but we just need to go be honest. Here's what occurred. Here's what our resolution is. Here's how we're going to get this taken care of and then move on to the next job. Because, you know, just trying uselessly to force something to happen that isn't able to happen is a huge waste of time for everybody.

Yeah, agreed. I know I've been in situations where I'm like, you know, I'll ask my guys or I've been in them myself where, you know, maybe it's eight, nine o'clock at night, you know, no telling what time we started that day and I'm going to be making more mistakes at that point because I'm tired then. So I could be just adding to the problem. So it's a point you get, get to where like you find yourself for, you're just burnt out and you're done for the day. Like we just need to get, we need to stop. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Yeah. Fatigue is something that we're very conscious of, and we are monitoring that. And that's always one of our biggest things is that we want to make sure that we're not overworking our guys out there, especially our new ones. We start them off very slowly because it's so much easier to add a job than it is to take a job off of a technician's schedule. And so that's why we start them off real slow. And then if you're running early, great. Let the office know. And over here, we'll start making phone calls. We'll see who we can move up in the schedule. And obviously, customers are always thrilled. Even if they're not able to take the appointment time, they're very appreciative that we called to try and get them in. If they can take that sooner appointment, then they're thrilled. They're just like, oh, you can be here today? In an hour? Yes. We'll take it. Great.

Yeah, see, I kind of do the opposite with my new guys. They have to be at my house at 5am to work out. No, sometimes I do do that with them. I did, I did that with the new guy here recently who came and was like, Hey man, I want to, I want a job. And I'm like, well, I don't, I'm not hiring anybody right now. But I was like, I'll tell you what, you show up at my house 5am over the next week and we'll talk, we'll work out, we'll take you on some runs. And because I am, I'm trying to find that higher level talent and somebody who's committed, you know, Hey, then I'll, I'll give you a shot. We'll make room. You know what I'm saying?

Definitely. Yeah. For the right person with the right attitude, it's worth it.

Yeah. And, but, uh, and, and, but, you know, sometimes I've thrown guys in like that and they, they can't handle it. And then it weeds, weeds out the week quickly. Um, you know, and brought on a guy a couple of weeks back. Um, and, uh, it, I didn't even mean to do this. It's just, it's just the way the job works sometimes is they were out on an install. This is actually really rare. It's kind of funny that it was like a second day until like three in the morning, man, out in the middle of Kansas. Yeah. They worked like a fricking 18 hour day. Right. Which my guys are, they're tough, man. And, uh, the guy he was with, he's a ex army guy, you know, and he's a tougher guy, you know what I'm saying? So I'm sure that added to his, the new guy's stress. But, uh, but, but yeah, he quit like the next day. So, um, which is, you know, is understandable, but at the same time, like, Dude, right now in our business, and hopefully we're not there forever, that we need people that can handle really tough situations, and we make sure, and on my end, I make sure and take care of them, you know what I'm saying, for doing that.

Right, yeah, that's what we need to do, because there are days that, as we said, there are days that are long, there are days that are brutal. Most of them are not like that, but they do happen from time to time, and I can understand how, Is a field tech that can be very frustrating and so if we're able to better support them by working with them and if we're able to identify these issues up front then just in the same way that we were saying earlier that it's their responsibility to communicate to us when they need time off for something. It's our responsibility to set them up for success as well and make sure that their schedule is not overloaded, that they will be able to accomplish everything. Or if for some reason something happens where got a bit of a curveball or something else and we know that they're going to be having a long day, we found it best to get in front of it, contact them, say, all right, look, here's the deal. This day is going to suck. We had to do it. Here's the reason why. Wanted to let you know that this wasn't done. This was only done due to the fact that we had no other choice and we were in a tough spot. This was not done because we don't care, because we're not paying attention, because we're like, screw it, whatever. It's not my problem, it's the tech's problem. We found that definitely goes a very long way with them. If we be upfront and communicate, and here's the deal, here's where we're at, this is why all this occurred, And then we do also ask, what can we do to make this better for you? If we've got a guy who's going out on a really long day, then can we start him at noon the following day? Or depending on how late he was off, maybe give him the day off, depending on how things work. And with our schedules, it's not always possible to do that. But then if we do have the option to say, all right, you're really going to be going crazy Monday and Tuesday, but then we can give you Friday off. then we'll try and do something like that so that we're not just taking from them all the time, and then we're able to give them something back. Because who doesn't like a weekday off? You can go knock out a bunch of errands, get a ton of stuff done, and then your weekend is yours after that. So they're very appreciative of that.

Yeah, for sure. No, I like that. And it's, it's almost impossible to get things done on the weekend. Sometimes we, we never work weekends, um, very rarely because I, I want to make sure, um, you have some time to recover, but I like that day off during the week. Sometimes I need to work, work to get my guys that a little bit more often. Cause how the hell else are you going to make it to the DMV? How else are you going to make it?

Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, yeah, we're big believers in weekends as well. And, you know, generally speaking, we do not work weekends. It's, it's something that we believe in very strongly, because as you said, you need those couple of days to be able to decompress, spend time with your family, spend time doing what it is that you want to do to then be able to be ready to come back, um, you know, the following Monday. We do on occasion work Mondays if we have a customer that's real insistent. I do always tell my guys one thing I hate doing is leaving money on the table. So if we have a customer who's wanting that then we will go to our tax and say we've got this customer. This is what they want. what is it going to cost for you? First off, are you interested? And then if yes, then what is it going to cost? Because obviously, they need to be compensated as well. So then we're able to make it work for everybody. It's a totally elective thing if they want to put in time on a Saturday. But even those are very, very rare.

Yeah. No, that's good stuff, man. That's a We've been going quite a while just on that one topic. I had quite a few more to bring you on for round three.

I've got time today to talk to you.

Keep rolling a little bit, but, but, uh, but yeah, so, um, what is something else? So, I mean, we, we have different things, sales, marketing, different, different things. We, we struggle with or might be struggling with acquiring new customers, maybe relationships with manufacturers, financials. As entrepreneurs, we kind of have to be... We should have some knowledge in accounting to a certain extent. It definitely helps. Right. Like that. So there's a few topics, but I'll let you go. What's big on your in your experience right now on any of those things?

Just that, you know, you can hire professionals to do things, but at the same time, you do, in a lot of ways, need to babysit them and making sure that they are getting things done correctly because they are, they're going to look out for their interests before they look out for yours, generally speaking. And that's, that's just human nature. For example, you know, I'd put it in the, in the Facebook group a few days ago, that my insurance company had screwed me over by overbilling me a non-refundable amount of over $8,000 more than should have been billed to me for some insurances. And ultimately, that's my responsibility. I'm the business owner. That does fall on me. That is my mistake. I could have prevented it. Where I made my error was I was trusting them too much to be doing things that needed to be done on my behalf the way that they should have been done. And so that was quite a wake up call. $8,000 is a chunk of money. So just losing that like that was absolutely infuriating. And Along with that, I do utilize PEOs, Professional Employment Organizations, to handle HR, payroll, and a lot of things. I've had issues with them as well where things are set up correctly. Well, for example, with our unemployment taxes, they put a decimal in the wrong spot. So I was paying 10 times more than I should have been. And so got that figured out, got that. Fortunately, that was refundable. That all ended up working out. I did end up getting a credit for that. But still, if you're paying 10x of what you should for something, that's a huge problem. Another PEO that I'd utilized previously, they had done some things incorrectly with some of my employees FSA and HSA accounts. And it ended up getting really, really confusing and convoluted to the point that then I had quite a few conversations with my accountant and then was able to get everything sorted out as the way that it should have had. And then I had to go back and then educate my PEO as to how all this was supposed to do. And I'm citing tax law and all sorts of other nonsense that needed to be done. So I do feel like a lot of us techs, especially people who started out as techs, we're generally best at turning wrenches. We may be entrepreneurial, but there's still a lot of things that we do not know and things that we're better suited to have other people take care of. And I'm all for that. But at the same time, we do need to stay on top of them. And it goes back to trust, but verify and make sure that things are in fact being done correctly. Because once this stuff starts happening, and then it's coming out of your bank account every week, every two weeks, whatever it may be, that could end up over time having a huge effect on your bottom line, and then therefore on your business as a whole.

Yeah, for sure. I think people, if you are in a business right now or own your own business, and you are just that guy who's good at turning wrenches, you should probably think about either going back to work for somebody else or learning the skills, the basic skills. Right. Because you have to, dude. You have to be able to... For me, I didn't have... the money to hire anybody, I'd do everything. I built my own website, I did my own SEO, I created my own Google Ads, I did all of everything, you know what I'm saying? QuickBooks, I learned QuickBooks and learned how to run reports and profit and loss and chart of accounts and had a basic understanding of accounting. you know, and I did have people helping me along the way. Like I had a friend or mentor kind of, um, in an accounting class at the time and had worked, you know, at another corporation for like an oil company. And he started helping me with some accounting stuff. And he's like, Oh, let me, um, buy into your business. You know what I mean? And that was, that was back in Metro fitness for a pair of days. But anyway, you know, um, But yeah, so I think it's really important for us to be able to have those basic skills. But then once we reach a certain level, you gotta start. There's no way you have time to do all that stuff yourself. Right. I've been. It's higher and then you're like, damn, this digital marketing company is expensive.

Even if you're not doing it yourself, you do still, at a very minimum, have an understanding of how it all works so that then you are understanding what they're saying. You're understanding the reports that are coming across your desk so that then, once again, you can verify, yes, this looks good, this looks correct, and move on to the next thing.

Yeah, absolutely. And you're exactly right about that. I can talk the language with my accountant now better. And then we can efficiently get on to bigger things too. It's like, hey, these are some transactions that aren't reconciled and so on and so forth. Then we meet, we handle those, and then we can get on to bigger and better things because we can efficiently move through stuff because I understand. He doesn't have to sit there and explain everything to me. You know what I mean? Right. And the same with the digital marketing company. Obviously, I'm not an expert in those areas, so that's not the case. There's still things that go over my head. But yeah, insurance is a tough one, man. I don't know. I've got to really look into mine because our insurance expenses doubled from last year. Yes. But we also had some really big customers where we had to get an umbrella policy. Obviously, workers comp, when you're scaling and you got more employees coming on, we just got audited. Now we owe an extra $4,000. Our payroll is so much higher than what it was estimated for. Right. I want to fucking burn every insurance company down to the ground. I fucking hate insurance. I will speak it passionately. I hate insurance. The whole industry is a scam, and it was built on a scam. A foundation, the root of insurance is somebody who they were trying to scam you.

A lot of it can be. Yeah. And I have plenty of issues with the insurance industry myself, and especially health insurance. That's getting to be absolutely ridiculous. But One thing I've found is that a lot of these policies for general liability, they do have a set minimum. And so that was the issue that I ran into, which is why I ended up overpaying that $8,000, is that things had been input way higher than they should have been. And once again, that was my fault for not catching that. And I don't know why that had happened. I don't know if that was a clerical error or what, but for whatever reason, that's what it was. I wasn't paying attention. I signed off on it. And so there I was. But in a lot of ways, so have a good talk with your insurance agent. That is the most important thing. Have a talk with them. You're paying them a lot of money. So force them to sit down with you, whether it's in person or virtually, and explain this stuff to you. Explain exactly what it is that you were paying for. I had also put in the group that Shane, who I'd gotten in touch with through Rubin, he has been phenomenal. I've learned a whole lot about this prior to contacting him. So then I was able to speak to him knowledgeably about this stuff. And he was able to make some things happen for me that originally looked like were not going to be able to happen. He was, you know, just just like I'd said in the group, I highly recommend anybody calling him. He understands exactly what we're doing with fitness equipment repair. So he's a great resource to be able to have even just to get a quote, if nothing else. And he ended up being able to get me better rates on everything, the liability, the workman's comp, and the auto. And so now, my staff is thrilled because for our commercial customers and other customers that require a COI, we now only have a single COI sheet All three policies expire on roughly the same day of the year, so we only need to go through this once a year now instead of having to constantly do that back and forth with customers because one policy is expiring and going through all that mess. It's simplifying things for us in the office as well.

Yeah. Yeah. Good stuff, man. Um, I may, I may have to make, I should hit Shane up for sure.

Yes. Yeah. You, you definitely need to, uh, my allowed to, uh, uh, to throw his phone number out here. Is that against the rules? I know he's cool with it.

Yeah, absolutely.

All right. Um, yeah, let me, let me find that here real quick.

So his, uh, in the, um, fix your gym group, uh, you know, we can, you can repost it there as well. Um, but yeah, you can go ahead and his number out there, but I wanted to let everybody know that too, that you can find it in the, in the group. Yes. You haven't joined the fixed gym group. Definitely do that. Um, where we have a lot of different conversations and, and, uh, get questions like this answered and connections that people have and all kinds of stuff. So,

Yeah, yeah, I've found it to be very helpful and it's great to be able to put stuff out there that, you know, it's, hey, this guy, he gets us, he understands it, definitely give him a call because he's certainly going to be able to help you out. So his name is Shane Welker, W-E-L-K-E-R, and his office number is 928-526-3223. So Uh, yeah, definitely, definitely give him a ring. Uh, cause he's, he's a very solid guy. Ruben spoke very highly of him and I definitely understand why.

Yeah. Good to know.

Um, I talk about the group more, I jump in on that or you want to, uh,

Let's go for another, I don't know, 10, 15 minutes, something.

Okay. Uh, well, yeah, just, just what you were saying about the group, uh, before, you know, I would encourage anybody and everybody to join if, if they're in this industry, it's been very helpful to throw some questions out there and then see other people's questions and be able to give our opinion on that and then see other people's opinions on that as well. So it really is growing into a, a very helpful community where we can all help each other and, not have to fight our own battles and be able to benefit from the experiences of others to make our own businesses better.

Yeah, for sure. And I really want to start here coming up too, is doing some like virtual masterminds, um, where we do like maybe monthly, um, meetings virtually get together. It'd be just like this, like zoom or whatever the case is. And, um, come up with, with topics that we want to start covering. Maybe the first meeting would just be like, Hey, everybody, like what, what do we, what do we want to start covering and what kind of people do we want What do we need help with? And then finding people who have maybe found solutions to those problems and having them come on and do a speaking session for a little while and teach us all of their deep knowledge and wisdom on the subject or whatever the case is. So little things like that. And then I want to do... I really want to do... something where we all meet up like in St. Louis or Kansas City, which is kind of like the middle of the country. Yeah. And like get together for a day and have an event where we have speakers that will help us with our business and stuff like that, whether it's, you know, financial experts or salespeople or other people in the industry and so on and so forth and do like workshops throughout the day. And then all of us go out for like a networking event at night, like it, whether it's, I don't know what chiefs game, I don't know what, you know, top golf or whatever, baseball game, Royals game or something, you know, if it's in Kansas city or Cardinals, I guess if it's in St. Louis or whatever, you know what I mean? But I'm from Chicago.

I can go to a Kansas city game, but I can't go to a cards game unless it's against the cops. So plan accordingly.

Yeah, no, I understand. Do we just go bowling or something?

There we go. That, that sounds safe.

But something anyways, that'd be kind of fun.

That's, that's, that would be a blast.

Yeah. Um, so we'll, we'll start planning that, um, when we can, obviously that's not, uh, you know, we'll have to come together on some form of support to do that, but I don't think we can make it happen. So, um, So yeah, the group's cool. I'm kind of surprised that it's got as many members as it has. There's a few people that came in there that I was surprised to see there. What surprised you about it? Oh, just some other, some people that I just, I thought they were more enemies than, and maybe that's why they're there. Maybe they're just in their period. There you go. Yeah.

Keep, keep your friends close to your enemies closer.

But, uh, but no, you know, I, I, it doesn't matter to me. Um, any of that stuff, I think I think people will start to see these types of things and even even if it's not this group, you know what I mean? But I think we need a group like this, you know, whatever it is or however it ends up manifesting and whatever sticks, I think it's important to have, you know, so.

Yeah, yeah, we definitely need better representation and you know, and better advocates for what it is that we're doing, a liaison between us and the manufacturers would be incredibly beneficial.

Yeah. Yeah, that's a difficult one, man.

It's difficult, but we've seen that is the standard in so many other industries. Definitely the standard in the automotive industry. There are a lot of similarities between us and them. I think the industry that's closest to us is appliance repair. And we see that same thing there. So, I was talking to somebody... Exactly.

What was that? What is the structure of that that you're... Will you explain a little bit more in depth about what you're talking about, what you see in those industries that we need in ours?

A... a liaison between the service companies and the manufacturers, because there's so much that could run more smoothly with, well, no, let me back up. I think there's a lot of misunderstanding between the two groups. A lot of the manufacturers don't understand what we're going through as service providers, and I think a lot of the service providers don't understand the challenges that the manufacturers have. So there's a lot of I don't want to say animosity, but there's a lot of misunderstanding between the two. And I've had talks with other providers as well. And from what we found, some people at some manufacturers are phenomenal. They are happy and thrilled to talk with us. And they want to get that better understanding. And those discussions are so beneficial. I've had a couple of them recently where I was able to understand things better from their point of view, they understood things better from our point of view, and so now some changes are going to start happening to where things are going to run more smoothly for us. To be able to have that advocacy, to be able to reach those decision-makers and then sit down at a table, have a conversation, you know, here's why doing it this way is super difficult for us. But then we also want to understand why doing it the way that we find most ideal is super difficult for them, so that then we can meet in the middle somewhere, find something that's going to work for everybody, and then be able to all proceed in a much better fashion from there.

Yeah, here's a breakdown of my analysis on this problem. And I'll use a real world example right now. which is, um, we are, we had a sales rep for techno gym, reach out to us and ask us to go into a new market. Okay. Right. Okay. So basically it was, and he's a sales rep. He's not in the service department. Right.

And you're already established with them, correct?

Correct. We're already set up with them. We've already done this in other areas. Right. But since then, there's all new people in the service department. So I think that's part of the problem too, but, but it's also a different area. That's different territory. And so what happens is I'm a business owner. The language that I speak is language that other business owners only understand. for the most part, right? When I talk about scaling a business, things like that and working capital and all of these different things, hiring and training and all these things that we've been talking about. Well, when I get into a conversation with the regional service manager of Technogym about my strategy here and what we're doing, it's like you're talking another language. He's an employee. He's just, he's an employee of the business. He doesn't understand what I'm saying. Even the sales rep to a certain extent doesn't understand, but sales reps understand a little bit more because they're in a similar, it's similar. Right. Right. Um, and a lot of sales reps are business owners too on the side, but, um, but, but yeah, and so there's a breakdown in communication. Right. Cannot communicate with these individuals who do not, do not understand our business, do not care to understand business and do not care to understand business at all because they just, they're getting a paycheck. They just want to go home at the end of the day. 5 o'clock hits, 445, and they're ready to go. They're out.

That's it. I'm out.

Anything other than that. That's a loose statement, but you get the point.

Well, right. Yeah. It's not across the board, but it definitely happens.

And so, you know, like, the the message was like, hey, we want to strike fitness solutions wants to expand in this area. Can you have a conversation with him? Can you have a conversation with him to see about getting him set up? The response back was from this from the service manager, please send me the names of technicians in this area and the address where parts will be shipped. It's like, dude, did you not read the message? Like, we haven't moved into this area yet. We need to have a conversation about this opportunity and our strategy move forward.

Because you need to make sure it's worth it before you start putting effort into it and making things happen. Yeah, you can't just shoot from the hip like that.

So you're dealing with ignorant people a lot of times. That's a big problem. And I'm just gonna say that bluntly, because that's just the facts. The people that we have to deal with are, they have serious attitude problems a lot of times. They're miserable at their jobs. They're miserable in their lives. I'm just laying it all out there. It's just what I experience. They're miserable to talk to. I hate calling into service to the technical support line a lot of times and I'm getting the worst attitude from people. Like I did something to them when I'm literally trying to help their customers, you know, our customers. Yeah. It's like, what, what is going on here?

You know, we've, we've run into that ourselves where, and once again, it's, it's not all across the board and even within the same company, you can have a totally different experience depending on who it is that you're speaking with. And yes, it's very frustrating when we're out there doing everything we can to get something fixed. We call in for help and then we're treated like we're, we're bothering them, you know, like, Come on, isn't this your job? Isn't this what you're supposed to be doing? And what does that go back to? I think it goes back to, just like we were discussing earlier, about obtaining top talent. And a lot of these manufacturers, I feel like they're probably running on slim profit margins. If you look at the cost of an entry-level treadmill over the last 10 years, it really hasn't gone up. But we know manufacturing costs have gone up. We know inflation is definitely a thing. And we know labor costs have gone up, even though they haven't necessarily gone up for us as technicians. So they've got to be making cuts somewhere to still be remaining profitable. And I think a lot of that is happening in the personnel wages that they're paying. Because when I first got into this industry 16 years ago, I do remember That most manufacturers were incredibly supportive. I remember being able to go out to jobs and not having to know everything and being able to call in and. As long as the person on the other end of the phone knew that you were competent and knew that you did know what you were in fact talking about, and you're not asking what a multimeter is, then everything was good, and they would be able to walk me through anything that was needed. These days, those reps, there's still a few of them out there in various companies, but it's much, much more difficult to find them.

Yeah, for sure. And that's the, I like the other side of that coin too, is, is they're dealing with, and I think we talked about this last time you were on, but from their perspective too, is that they are dealing with ignorant people as well, you know, a lot of the time. Yeah. And and so, but when, when, when you know that you're competent and that your team is competent and that you've put so much work into not being that ignorant person calling and asking questions when they don't know what a multimeter is, you know what I'm saying? Then you expect, you expect, but they just got off the phone with somebody who didn't know what a multimeter was. Maybe the last 10 phone calls were that, so their attitude is already that. You gotta see it from both perspectives as well. Yeah. But yeah, so what does the liaison look like? I guess I just don't know, even in other industries, exactly how that looks. Will you explain that a little bit more?

Sure, so the automotive industry has the ASE. And then there's, I can't recall the name, it's the United Servicers Association, I believe, is, the Home Appliance Association that I'm referencing. There's a membership and then they act on behalf of the service providers, but then they're also sponsored by the manufacturers as well. Then what they're able to do is they're able to put on these trainings and come up with more centralized certifications where if you get this certification then you are automatically certified on a number of manufacturers without having to go through each and every single one individually which as we discussed before has a huge a barrier to entry with the time and the cost that that takes. If we can get things centralized to where we've got one source for being able to get multiple certifications all at the same time so that you can get five, 10 certifications, whatever it is, without having to listen to somebody talk about how to tension a walking belt five or 10 individual times. So there would be more than likely a basic training that covers everything, and then there would be smaller segments for manufacturer-specific things. And then when we get to that, ultimately, really a lot of what we're talking about is software, and how to get into the console, make adjustments within the console, and do the manufacturer-specific things for those certain machines. Interesting.

I wonder if there's some sort of like, why aren't we there yet? And I wonder, what are the differences between our industry and an appliance industry? And I think one of the things that we will that you, you know, as we as you look to build that association is as risk and liability. You have these manufacturers right now that are under significant amounts of litigation because of people getting hurt on their equipment. And it's a little different. You don't have somebody with a washer and dryer who's, unless they're just hopping in the dryer and turning it on, who's getting hurt using their products. You know what I'm saying? And so there's a huge liability. when it comes to fitness equipment, and I think they like to try to keep that in-house to cover themselves, you know?

Yeah. And that does make sense. At the same time, though, with that huge liability, they need qualified technicians that have been vetted, background checked, and established as well. So, you know, that does go both ways.

Yeah, it could be a solution to that problem. Either not, they're not seeing it that way. Or maybe that's not even what they're seeing. I wonder what their perspective on this would be. You know, so if you have any of that, if there's been any good feedback on that, I'm just curious what you guys found out, because I know you guys are trying to get that thing going. I'm curious what that looks like, what kind of barrier.

Yeah, we're getting things off the ground and things are happening. And so, you know, at this point, not not too terribly much, you know, to report, but we are getting things established and so that we can ultimately all come together and then make this change. You know, one big difference between us and the appliance repair industry is we're a much younger industry than they are. Fitness equipment has really only been around for 30 to 40 years and has only been mainstream for, uh, what, maybe 20, uh, to where it's much more commonplace. So I think that's why this hasn't been done yet is our industry is so much younger. And I think this is a natural progression and the direction that things need to be moving in.

I'm with you, man. I love it. I do have to wrap things up here for a good hour, at least. Good conversation. I know there's a lot more.

There's always more. Yeah. Well, as always, thank you for having me on again and for having these discussions and starting these things up because it's working to the benefit of us all to all be able to come together and communicate, uh, and share our struggles and our, and our successes as well.

Sure, man. All right. Very cool. Well, until next time, um, good luck out there and thanks again for your time. And we'll, I'm sure we'll talk again soon. So, Oh yeah, we'll be talking.

Thanks.

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