Welcome to Fix Your Gym, a podcast dedicated to bringing you expert knowledge from fitness industry leaders, salespeople, gym owners, tech experts, and other fitness enthusiasts, where you'll learn about the latest industry trends, innovative technologies, new and current products on the market, and health and fitness news from experts across the nation. And now, here's your host, Adam Kniffin. 

All right, welcome to the Fix Your Gym podcast. We are live from IHRSA in Los Angeles, California, 2024. IHRSA is the, well, it's now been deemed, what is the new name? 

The Health and Fitness Association. Health and Fitness Association. 

The National Health and Fitness Association. This is basically a place where vendors, manufacturers of fitness equipment, gym owners, tech companies, all kinds of different businesses and entrepreneurs get together, network, set up booths. I'm here with my friend Ruben Hand from FieldTech Fitness Solutions. It's been kind of a long time coming, been kind of planning this out and really looking forward to this conversation with Ruben. I think he's got a lot of really great knowledge and insights on the fitness equipment service side of the industry and the fitness equipment side of it as well. But Ruben owns a Fitness Equipment Service Company and then Field Tech Fitness Solutions is a limit. I'll let you explain a little bit about what it is and what you do and then we'll jump into. For sure. 

Yeah. So also, by the way, I'm super excited to be here as well. I've been, this is a long time coming. You're right. So The planning and everything coming up to this has been something I've anticipated, just sitting down with you and I'm grateful that you've taken the time to give me the opportunity to talk about FieldTech. But yeah, FieldTech essentially started because there was a real need particularly for service providers to get their companies organized, get their processes put together, stop using a million different applications and put something together that essentially streamlines their operations and gives them a single stop platform to do everything that they do.

It's basically a CRM, correct?

When it comes down to it, it's a CRM, there's a built-in calendar, all of your work orders will be done there, all of your bids, all of your parts, equipment, all of that stuff will be housed inside Fieldstack. And so when a client calls and says, I need service on this or that, you'll have all of their information, all of their Equipment will be listed. You can create that work order, schedule it to a specific technician. That technician would then have their work order on their phone.

You know, so it's a, it's a digital stop for any, anybody who is a part of a service company. This, this aspect of the business is very, very important. Right. And there's not a lot of programs out there, software out there that is really, I don't think there's any that's really dedicated to the fitness equipment technicians.

We are the only ones pointed directly at installers, service providers. We have built kind of a sales portal to it as well. So there's a little extension there into the sales side so that salesmen can track their leads and opportunities and send out their quotes. And once those, if a salesman sold a club or whatever, once that happens, they can then submit that as a request so that the manager that's scheduling deliveries and installs can then take all that information and kind of continue the path. Right.

Yeah. So yeah, no, definitely interesting stuff. And we don't use field technical solutions right now, but I'm definitely interested. I didn't even know you guys existed, you know, until we started talking. and things like that.

And I think that's what it's about for me right now with field tech. We're still pretty young and so getting the word out there and letting people know that there is a solution is the primary goal.

It seems like you're on the right path. I watch you and your content that you create. You're creative and you come to events like this. I think a lot of people in our industry, at least our sector of the industry, they don't maybe think this stuff is as important as what probably you and I really see it as, you know, these trade shows and meeting people and building relationships and it's all a really important part of scaling your business and that's something and we'll get into that a little bit more too about, you know, kind of the mindset of the entrepreneurs within our service industry and that kind of smaller mindset of, you know, not seeing the importance in these things, but kind of trying to elevate ourselves as entrepreneurs to start really, you know, reshaping the way that we do business and things like that. Yeah.

I think you've hit it on the head. Yep. Yeah. And as you mentioned, I do own, still own a service company. I started, so I started in the industry by chance, like a lot of people, you know, you don't really, You don't really look, open the paper like, I wonder what, open the paper, open ads or whatever, like I wonder what fitness equipment companies are hiring, right? But when I was looking for a job, I did. I opened the newspaper and it was like, oh, here's a fitness equipment company that's got a warehousing job. And so in 2003, that's what I did. I took a job in a warehouse stocking at night, actually. And then I parlayed that into into a service position, and then 2004 opened up that service company that you were talking about, Ace Fitness, and did what most do, I think, just tried to figure it all out, you know, have way more work than I could keep up with, you know, just trying to complete the jobs and grow a company was enough. And then, you know, as that kind of got a little easier and had key people come in with me and work with me, then I started looking at it from a, like you said, a little bigger perspective as an entrepreneur and saying, hey, how can I How can I grow this bigger? And I realized that the first thing that had to be fixed was what digital tools are we going to use? This whole paperwork order, filing cabinet system, that's not going to work. I used that for way too long. Yeah, I think a lot of companies do. In fact, there's a couple of companies that use FieldTech currently that were using paper just a year ago. Yeah, not that long ago. Yeah, and so it really transitioned to, hey, there's not a great solution that fits the business that we're in. And so that's really where FieldTech was born. And 2017 started developing FieldTech. 2020 finally launched to the stores and still continuing to develop today as I add new clients and they kind of tell me about their operations and it says, you know, and they say, you know, we wish it did this or we've always done that. Sometimes it makes sense to continue that development and say, oh yeah, let's add that little piece to it. It's been a real blessing and it's been a real journey. And I think through that journey, it's where I've sort of gone through firsthand the same struggles and challenges that a lot of other companies do. And it's really what's led me to the perspective that I have today. you know, that a lot of these companies face similar challenges that I've had. These business owners are going through the same struggles that I've gone through, that I'm sure you've gone through in growing. And I think that between, you know, the struggles that they've had, the size and scope of their business and limited resources and really the lack of community that surrounds the fitness equipment service businesses. Yeah, because we're all competing. Yeah, that's the perception.

There's so few of us and we're all at war all the time.

And I just don't know if it has to be that way. No, it doesn't. You know, I think that it really needs to be the opposite where it's like, let's stop competing and let's start supporting each other. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, no, I think that, I like the way you think, you're clearly Technicians are different thinkers. I can see that you're the type of person that sees problems and wants to solve them. Absolutely. And then provides some sort of product or service because that's the way we solve problems on a bigger scale in the type of economy we live in. And then you provide value to the industry and to the economy by creating products and services that solve these problems. And that's exactly what we need, right?

Yeah, well I appreciate you saying it, but yeah, that's what we need. We need people like you, advocates for the industry, coming along and speaking out, highlighting what can be fixed, and then products like FieldTech that come along beside the business owners and help them with tools to do just that. Yeah, absolutely.

So I know we've been talking a lot about what kind of change gears here, you know, we've been meeting and get to know each other and, you know, kind of talking about, you know, where's the industry at kind of, you know, where would we like to see it go? You know, what is kind of our observation right now? of where the industry is at as a whole. So let's dig into that kind of first part a little bit. And so just kind of give me your perspective of, you know, kind of an overview of what you think our industry, where do you think it's at right now?

Yeah, so I think most people would agree that we're pretty fragmented. You know, there's not a lot of connection one company to the next. So I think most people would agree with that. I think that a lot of companies are you know, pretty small, fairly small anyway. A lot of service companies, ISPs, are fairly small and so resources are limited, you know, whether it's staff, whether it's revenue, you know, whether it's experience, you know, as a business owner. I think a lot of owners are overwhelmed. just by workload. I think you kind of take two steps forward, one step back as far as like, oh, I finally hired the right person. And then whatever happens and it doesn't work out. And when that's the case, then it's back on your shoulders again. And so you're just constantly switching hats. you know, trying to keep up. I think a lot of business owners are overwhelmed by that. I think that recognition as an industry is missing. I think when you go into the club, when you walk into the club, everybody recognizes you then. They're happy you're there. Let's get you to go. But as soon as you walk back out those club doors, that recognition goes away. And I think that that... Why do you think that is? Um, you know, I think that as a, I think there's a lot of reasons for it. I think that as a industry, I think that we don't have advocacy. We don't have a lot of people standing up and saying, Hey, here's what we do. And we deserve that recognition and support for doing it. You know what I mean? So I think there's a lot of reasons why that is. I think that it's such a niche, such a small niche servicing fitness equipment that a lot of people, you know, the first time that their treadmill breaks down, They panic, like, who fixes this? And then they realize that there's this whole support structure built in. And oh my gosh, I'm so grateful that you're here. I'm so grateful that there's somebody to come and fix this. So I think that because it's a small niche, I think that because people outside the club don't know that there's a need, I think that that's where that recognition and that sort of definition of a trade and industry is missing.

Let's not beat around the bush. Let's talk a little bit about Really, I think, my opinion on this is that the reason why that is the way that it is, is manufacturers have really complete control over, and I'm not saying that that's a bad thing or the wrong thing or anything like that, I'm just saying that that's the facts, you know, is that the manufacturers, because when a treadmill breaks down at gym so-and-so and they don't know where to go, well, they call the salesperson that sold it to them. You know what I mean? The salesperson says, oh, well, you know, plugs them in, you know, to their network of people, right? Right. So in order to get into this industry, you know, you have to get in with the manufacturers. You really I've seen some guys get by on like residential calls, you know, have small businesses not working for the manufacturers. But it's almost impossible if you want to build a legitimate business in this industry to not get in with manufacturers. They're the ones that kind of control, you know, they control the pricing for the most part. They control the territories and things like that, right? They have a ton of influence over our business, right? As service providers. And so, you know, that's just the facts. That's just kind of the structure of the industry. So, you know, what do you think What do you think we need to do to make the changes? Because sometimes it seems like, you know, hey, we're up against these big, these really big companies or we're trying to get in with them and we can't or whatever the case is. You know, what do you think as entrepreneurs, small business owners, we can do to kind of overcome that problem or improve, you know, relationships? What do we need to do?

Yeah, no, you bring up a really good point. And I appreciate you calling it a fact. I think that most, most of your listeners and most of the people that I talked to would agree with that. It's the facts. Manufacturers control kind of how this goes. And really the support that is given from manufacturers is on a downward trend. There's things that manufacturers really used to do well that they don't do as well anymore. But I do think that manufacturers deserve some real credit. Because ultimately it was manufacturers that came and sort of out of the sand built, you know, this method of developing technicians, of building a service network, of parts distribution. And so, you know, I don't feel like it's fair to just completely overlook that and say, hey, here's where we are present day. let's point the finger at the bad guy. I think that ultimately manufacturers came initially with a real presence to develop and build technicians. I just feel like over the past five or maybe 10 years, that's just kind of been on a downward trend. I think that, you know, the certification classes that manufacturers put on anymore is not as good as it used to be. Labor rates, I don't think, I think there's people on the other end of your podcast right now beating on their steering wheel saying.

We're getting paid sometimes the same rates today as we did in 2010 when I started. Right. Like, wait a second. Wait a second, because everything has tripled in price since then, so why has this not changed?

Yeah, because you're paying people a whole lot different, you know, your cost is going way up, yeah.

But some manufacturers have changed it, have raised it.

You're right, and changed the whole structure of how they do it as well. Some manufacturers have shifted away from that, you know, flat, this is what you're going to get mentality to, hey, no, I understand that, changing a console is completely different than pulling a belt and deck, you know what I mean? So yeah, I think that there's some work that needs to be done for manufacturers, but you mentioned, what do we do about change? Where do we go from here, right? And I think that a lot of that happens with the cooperation of manufacturers. I don't know that just going head-to-head and saying, hey, this is what we need and this is what we want is the approach. I think that conversations like you and I are having now, we sat around the table last night for dinner, you and I and a few other companies. You know, I think that we all kind of said the same thing that, you know, we what what we need is collaboration. What we need is continued conversation. What we need is connection between companies and this this idea of competition. And, you know, I can't share any information with you, you know, because you're going to ruin my business. That's just not true. And it needs to change. And so so as far as as far as where do we go from here? I think, first of all, recognizing that you have to let go of that boxed-in mentality. You have to let go of the fact that you have to Accept that you doing this alone. You're banging your head against a wall Yeah, you need you need to reach out to other business owners You need to talk to them about your challenges and when other business owners get that call, you know They need to they need to respond with hey, here's what we try, you know and I think that that sort of connection and that knowledge sharing will help to make some of those changes that we're talking about. And the more that those conversations happen, I think the more key players enter that conversation. And ultimately, the more sort of clout we start to carry with manufacturers and then realizing that, hey, we really are an extension to what you're doing. And so the recognition and the support from manufacturers hopefully will follow.

Yeah, no, so one thing that I've noticed and that, you know, I've been on kind of both sides of it. With my first business, I got really frustrated with manufacturers after a certain period of time where it's like, man, I just can't, I just can't seem to, you know, get ahead here or whatever the case is. know fighting for this relationship or that relationship or this territory and I realized that after I kind of wiped the slate clean and started another business and kind of re kind of started with a clean slate right with a new business and kind of a new state of mind and I started thinking about you know like Really, the problem was me more than anything else. You know what I mean? I didn't run my business like a real business owner. You know what I mean? I didn't have the systems in place, the processes in place. We weren't operating efficiently. We really weren't as professional as we could have been. We weren't really providing very many solutions, you know what I mean, to the manufacturers or to the customers. You see what I'm saying?

We were just kind of like this

this regular old service team, you know what I mean, with guys with toolboxes that can maybe fix some stuff or whatever, you know what I mean? But this time around, I really think that us as small business owners, We're the only ones that can change this. We're the only ones that can improve our own condition. We can't bang at the door of manufacturers or anybody for that matter. It's a matter of taking responsibility and saying, hey, this problem is really on me. If I'm not providing value, Um, you see what I'm saying? I do. Then nobody's going, I have to be, I have to provide the value. If I provide the value, they'll will notice. Sure. I will, I will. You'll stand out. Yeah, absolutely. You will be compensated for the amount of value you provide to the market.

Yeah. Yeah, no, you bring up a really good point, and I think you mentioned the first business that you had, you kind of went about things maybe the wrong way, or you've changed that method with Stride Fitness, and I think that, unfortunately, I think that's a common story. I think a lot of business owners started as technicians, right? That's where they got their roots. They worked for another company, whatever it was, and then at some point started their own business, and took what they've learned from being a technician, what they've been told from manufacturers, right? When they've gone to certification classes and talked to other business owners, maybe technicians, maybe business owners, you know, they've brought that into how they're going to structure their company. And so they kind of just stay in that lane. They've come to accept that labor rates are going to be low, that's just how the business works, and I can only work on ICON because that's the lane that I've been provided, or whatever it is. And so rather than what you're talking about going sort of pulling back a little bit and looking at the business from a larger perspective and saying, listen, if I'm the technician here, then this is my responsibility. But if I'm the business owner, it's a much bigger responsibility. Hope at least weighs heavy on a lot of business owners when when it does come down to I wish we were getting bigger rates I wish we were getting better parts discounts and they should be a lot of that weight should be on your shoulders What what are you? What are you willing to take on as far as that? Responsibility and and what are you willing to share in that responsibility so that we can make a change? Yes for sure Yeah Yeah

So we're talking about this idea of awakening the industry. And so that kind of plays in with what we were just talking about. What does that look like? What does that mean?

Sure. Well, I mean, I think it's conversations like this. I think it's people like you who are willing to sort of open up avenues for people to start talking about it. You know, I mean, there's some things that are actionable. No question. There's some there's some things that we can fix right now. And that just comes with data collection. For example, what kind of pay scales are you facing on the East Coast versus West Coast versus Midwest? What kind of rates are you able to charge? in different markets? What's the size and scope of your company? Collecting that kind of data and then pushing that back out as sort of an industry report, I think is sort of the foundation of building maybe an association of fitness equipment service providers. And now they have actual data that they can model their business after. from there comes some standardization as far as that goes. Maybe even it pivots into training and certification and process standardization, things like that. But I think it's these types of conversations that are what you referenced as awakening in the industry rather than just sitting around complaining. It's like having some conversations that are open to change and being willing, right? If that business owner is across the street, are you still willing to pick up the phone? Are you still willing to talk to that person, even to the extent of, you know, sharing knowledge? Hey, here's what we did to fix that problem. Or even when it comes down to, I'm having trouble locating this part, you know, are you willing to extend a hand across and make that happen? Yeah, absolutely. So I think that that's kind of where I see as far as an awakening in the industry I think I hope that people are starting to see that look there's a bigger There's I know that trust me firsthand. I know and Adam, you know the struggles that hit you daily, right? This person calls in sick, reschedule that job. This part got back ordered, reschedule. But having the foresight to say, look, there's more to it than this. There's more that we can be doing. There's a way, a better path to creating the industry that we all talk about all the time, that in my opinion is just not, it's not real, not yet.

Yeah, but do you think it's maybe because it's just so small and new, you know, like what's different from our industry than, you know, say, appliance repair, you know, or something like that? Or, you know, what is it that's different? Or is it really that much different?

I think from like a field level, it's probably not that different. It's probably, hey, the guy that comes in to fix the dishwasher needs to be a professional. He needs to present himself as a professional so that he's accepted as one and so that the repair that he's making and the recommendations he's making are the client Perceives that as as you know expertise, so I think from a field level not that different What's different as an industry quote-unquote industry is that the market share right? Everybody has a dishwasher How many people have a treadmill? How many people are going into clubs to serve as dishwashers? It's not happening. And there's not a big commercial market of dishwashers. So I think just because of the niche that we operate in, it makes it a little more difficult to establish yourself as an industry or a trade-up.

Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah. And of course, there is to, you know, a difference with, you know, as here's the thing about manufacturers that is nice and working with them is that I don't have to go out and get leads. Sure. You know what I mean? Right. The leads come to me. I just got to develop relationships and I don't have to advertise. I don't I don't have to. You know what I mean? And so it wouldn't make sense necessarily for me to charge the same or expect the same from a a call that comes from a manufacturer than one that I sold online. You see what I'm saying? I do. Because my marketing costs are higher. It costs me more to go and get that client. You see what I'm saying?

Yeah, I guess from a client acquisition point, you know, your costs are a little less and so I could, and I think that by and large, I think everybody's willing to accept, hey, you know, I'm going to be able to charge an hourly rate of $150 or whatever it is to my clients for services rendered. And then to manufacturers, you know, I'm going to accept a little lesser rate Because like you said that work is just fed to me It's probably a little more the scope of work is probably a little more dialed in you're here to do a specific thing And so hopefully the time you spent on site, you know is reduced But what's that gap look like? Is it 10% or 15% or is it 50% and 70%? And that's where it starts to get frustrating for people. When they're getting $60 and $65 for a warranty call, that's just not feasible for me. for any sort of long period of time. You're not growing your company on those kind of rates.

That's for sure. No, not at all. I think it was Peloton not too long ago. I'm just going to call it how it is. I think they were wanting to pay me like $45 for service calls. You know what I'm saying? I ain't doing it. Yeah. You can't.

Yeah.

But there's people out there doing it, which is interesting. Yeah. But nevertheless... There was something I was going to say about...

Well, I mean, I'll just jump in and say, we've talked a lot already about knowledge sharing and being open for conversation with your competitors. I know I'm filling my quotes up a lot, but I've operated my business, my service business, and honestly, field tech, I do the exact same thing. I don't look at things as, you're my competition. I look at things as like, you're my colleague. You do the same things that I do. Your company is similar to mine. I can learn from you. And I hope that I can share with you as well. And so that collaboration is something that I'm a huge advocate for. I really feel like that there's a need for standardized practices so that we can all start to point to the same direction when we're making Repairs when we're making recommendations, you know when we're doing simple maintenance that we're performing similar tasks, you know I think that if a lot of this sort of standardization in training, certification, right? If you're certified, does that mean that you can work on life and pre-corps? Oh, no, you only go into pre-corps, right?

So you're talking about having like a, you know, kind of across the board, like one certification type of thing or some sort of...

I think a lot of people would agree that that makes sense. Yeah. Right. I mean, if you if you service several brands, I think you know that your skill set translates. You know, of course, there's some proprietary stuff that is required from one manufacturer to another. But I think that most people would agree that, hey, if we had a standard certification, that if if I if I carry this certification, whether I'm talking to a prospective business owner, and I'm looking for a job, or I'm being evaluated by a client, if I carry this certification, you can trust that I have enough experience, sort of general experience to service your new step, your pre-core, your Peloton, whatever it is, you know?

Yeah, that'd be kind of like, well, like in the automotive industry, so I mean, say I'm a technician at Toyota, at the dealership or whatever the case is, Obviously, you got all kinds of different brands coming in there. How does that work there in that type of situation? Is there like a standard certification? I don't really know the automotive industry. I'm just curious. It's kind of similar to that.

I think it would be something similar to that. I don't know the automotive industry either. But I do know this, there is an industry, right? We can all agree that there is an automotive industry. And in that industry, there's a certification that says if you carry this certification, then you're capable of fixing this brand of car or that. And so I think that's kind of, I don't know if I call it my vision, but it's certainly something that comes up a lot in these types of conversations where, you know, if there were, If there were, I don't want to say like an ASE certification, I know that that's taken, but if there were sort of a standard certification or training process that now this person wears as a badge of honor and says, yes, I've completed this and it's not simply a three-day course that I did at Woodway or whatever, then I think most people would agree that that starts to present us as an industry as a trade as a Recognized support structure for the fitness equipment industry.

Yeah Yeah something we were talking about, you know, what are the changes that we need to make? Yeah, I definitely agree with you on that I think Man, I think you go and do a two-day, three-day, even sometimes four-day training class as a new technician, you're not coming out of that class ready to work on the equipment. It's just not sufficient. First of all, you probably are going to forget most of it by the time you forget, get to your first service call, you know what I mean? For that, for that manufacturer, um, you know, so what, you know, what are the solutions to stuff like that? And I think, you know, what you're talking about is definitely interesting. We've tried to implement some, some, some internal training programs and things like that to help. Um, but you know, you think about, and I don't know much about the electrician, you know, trade, but I, I know that they have, you know, being an electrician, you have to be, you know, an apprentice for, years, you know what I mean? And so we've kind of taken that approach a little bit to where like, You might be able to go out on some service calls, but you're probably not gonna go out on some of the bigger ones for probably a year or so, you know what I mean? So you've had some significant training. Maybe you've been to that training course two or three times rather than just one time, you know what I mean? So we'll send our guys to the same training course a few different times, you know what I mean? Kind of keep things fresh in their mind and stuff like that. But yeah, I don't know how efficient that is. Surely we could improve on that process and those types of systems, but.

Yeah, and I think a lot of companies and even some manufacturers still require that, you know, where you continue that certification, education, you know, training, etc. You know, you go back every couple years, whatever. I think that That's kind of slipped away post-COVID. I don't know that many places are still requiring a lot of recertification, but that may come back. Who knows? But the point that you made to, you know, so I went to this four-day course, right? Now it's time for me to put that to action. I don't remember any of that. So now it's time to call the manufacturer. And you're relying on that support structure as well. Are you calling, first of all, are you calling somebody in the United States? Are you calling somebody that knows about the equipment that you're working on? Or are they just looking at some documentation?

Yeah, are you calling somebody who just forgot all the same stuff you forgot because they were at the training class too?

Exactly. They sat next to you in that course. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, I think that, you know, What whatever happens moving forward can only improve on where we are now as long as it's done Intentionally as long as it's done Facing service providers facing the technicians. I think that we can really get to a place that You know advancements are being made and it's being felt firsthand, you know people are reaping the benefit of Whatever it is, if it's just better labor rates, great. The company's going to be a little healthier. You're going to have better longevity. If it's better training and certification, if that training and certification is done outside the manufacturers and it's done in some sort of private format, does that now include a whole new set of support? Are you able to now call that company? versus calling a manufacturer, right? And speaking to somebody who's maybe a little more tuned in on trends and on issues and things like that across the board, not just specifically like, oh, you're calling Precor, so I only know what's happening with, you know, TRMs, you know what I mean?

So I've got some pretty decent technical support from like some of these aftermarket providers every once in a while on things like National Gym Supply, you know, has some manuals and stuff you can access and stuff like that. treadmill doctor. I used to call them more off when I did more residential stuff and they were helpful too. But like, yeah, I didn't even think about that. Like, you know, maybe we could, um, have some sort of organization that is outside that kind of covers everything, um, for just additional support and help and stuff like that.

Yeah. And companies that you just referenced, you know, fitness repair parts has massive amounts of documentation. Yeah. You know, service manuals, blow ups, part drawings, you know, having companies, you know, larger companies like that step to the table. Yeah. In the same fashion that that we're talking about in the same conversation and saying, yeah, we we recognize that there is a gap. Yeah. You know what I mean? And having them help to to fill that and maybe even help help to establish that connection between honestly, field level techs and ISPs all the way up to the manufacturers, helping to sort of bridge that gap and make those connections. You know, I think that that's also vital. Yeah.

Another thing that I've seen too with a lot of repair companies, and I've kind of done this a little bit myself, I don't anymore, but as I see a lot of times where, you know, maybe the, maybe the service provider is, is, um, you know, struggling or not making enough money or whatever the case is. So they decide to get into selling equipment, right? Sure. Right. And so that's kind of an interesting dynamic that I think is it can be good. I mean, you know, but if it's done right, but it can also take you away from kind of your core business. And then, you know, we don't see any of these problems get solved. That we're talking about, you know, because we get pulled away from it and we just kind of give up or like I'll just sell if we might make more money this way anyways, you know Tempting sure, you know, it's really tempting but but it doesn't ever really solve the problem. You know what I mean? And I If we're trying to, you know, manufacturers, it seems like some are alright with that and some aren't. I mean, a lot of people don't want you selling equipment and servicing, you know, see what I'm saying? So, what do you think about that idea, you know, and what have you done in your business or seen kind of in the industry regarding that topic?

Um, I think that you're, I think you make a good point. I think that you, you have to pivot, you know, as, as your, as your business grows and as you scale, you have to pivot and look for more revenue and in places that maybe you didn't previously. Um, I, we had a great discussion going last night about, you know, doing what you're good at. Yeah. Right. Focusing on what you're good at. And I, that's for me what I've done with my service company. And, um, I think that we've, been successful in staying in staying out of the sales side because of focusing strictly on service. We've been successful staying off of the sales, allowing us to be unbiased, right? Like I don't care if you want to fix this treadmill or if you want a recommendation for a new one or a referral even to a company that will sell that to you, you know, and I think a lot of ISPs kind of take that approach. But I've seen companies go the other way and be successful there too, where they have been able to recruit the right staff to almost keep it compartmentalized. Like, hey, here's our sales department, our installation department, our service department. And then they start seeing some real sort of scalability in their company.

Yeah, I mean, we see that too, like with these large car dealerships and stuff like that, they have service departments and things like that. Yeah, I don't know. I kind of go back and forth with that one, but I like the idea of focusing in on what you're good at. There's a whole idea of like the guns and butter thing, right? Have you ever heard that? No. It's like one person makes guns, one person makes butter. They both need guns and butter. So they just, they trade. They trade guns for butter, right? But instead of trying to do something that you're not good at, if I'm good at making butter, I'm not going to try to make guns. You see what I'm saying? I'm good at that one thing, so I'll do it and then we'll work together. You know what I mean?

And that holds true in the fitness industry for sure. A lot of companies do partner up and say, hey, you guys do the selling, we'll do the service or whatever.

I don't know how long we've been going, but what I would like to see us do, Ruben, too, is maybe kind of make this a quarterly thing or something like that, or a hop on, and maybe we're kind of covering a lot of the, maybe the problems or issues we see right now, but if we continue this, you know, and then measure our progress and see what kind of changes we're making or changes are happening, I think that would be cool to keep this kind of thing going and keep getting together with us and guys like Dan and other guys and start soon what we can do together to solve these problems and hopefully provide more value and solve problems for it. Because that's what we're here for ultimately, right? We're in the service industry, so. We've got to provide service for others and provide value and solutions to problems.

Yeah, yeah, I appreciate you taking the time talking about all this giving me the opportunity to sit in on your podcast. I appreciate all of that. Yeah, you know, I also appreciate you being willing to reopen the conversation every so often. And just, you know, I hope at least that our conversation today and all the podcasts that you do just can Continue to encourage your listeners and other people in the service industry to continue that conversation start talking Yeah, start talking to your buddies in the industry talk to other people on the podcast Always looking for guests.

Yeah, let's talk shop.

Yeah

Thank you, thank you, thank you for doing this. I appreciate it. Looking forward to more good conversations. Great. You know, engaging conversations. It's always good. And yeah, so thanks for coming on, man.

Yeah, thank you as well, Adam. I appreciate it very much.

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